Curse

Ravious · Jan 16, 2008, 03:43 PM // 15:43

I am looking forward to it greatly.

I believe that it is going to be more of an event game than a farm game. Like we won't be farming smites, we will be playing an event where smites are attacking a reaver trying to carry souls to the underworld, and anyone can join...

At least that's the way I see it... as to what will be... who knows.

Aera Lure · Jan 16, 2008, 03:43 PM // 15:43

I like it. Seems to me though the zones/world would have to be huge. An awful lot bigger than the biggest zones that were in Guild Wars, otherwise certain areas would just be too crowded.

I used to play MUDs ages back. Its a completely different scale, but all around outposts of course monsters would respawn constantly, as they were getting killed by the players all wandering around close to town. As you moved out into the wilderness though, you saw other players less and less.

Just how far out into nowhere can we go? And would very distant localities still yield custom and beautiful unique visual finds? Or would it just be repeating bland expanses of landscape at some point? If the latter, I'd be disappointed. If the former, I'd be in love. I'd probably just spend my time being a true cartographer and explorer, heading way out into the wilderness where few ever go. I have no idea though just how large the environments might get. The idea seems iffy if they arent of considerable size (read: huge) or are bland, repeating landscapes.

Crom The Pale · Jan 16, 2008, 03:44 PM // 15:44

I really love the idea, for the simple reason that guild members who log on late would be able to join up with us where ever we were rather than us all haveing to exit and meet at a city.

The one real drawback I forsee is the travel time would increase dramatically.

lyra_song · Jan 16, 2008, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

The one real drawback I forsee is the travel time would increase dramatically.

^^ legitimate reason for mounts...

you should see my "Wake Rider" class...

ValaOfTheFens · Jan 16, 2008, 04:01 PM // 16:01

My playstyle prolly won't change too much. If map travel isn't in GW2 then there better be some FREE means of travel. I played the WoW trial and I spent a mint on griffon travel.

sterbenx2 · Jan 16, 2008, 04:03 PM // 16:03

I liked this feature of WoW also.. but I HATED walking for endless minutes to get from point to point.

The map travel system we have now can work for an instanced world just as well as it does for a persistant world. It would just need a set spawn point to "drop" you on.

And if you look back to old interviews, Jeff said he hated spawn camping, so I'm sure he'll take steps to prevent it.

but please. NO HORSES!!!! my god.. Unless we can ride Zhed.. =P

lyra_song · Jan 16, 2008, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterbenx2

but please. NO HORSES!!!! my god.. Unless we can ride Zhed.. =P

My idea was mountable Elk (Yakul from Princess Mononoke!!)

I dont have my concept drawings since im at work, but i might show you what i had in mind later.

Ctb · Jan 16, 2008, 04:24 PM // 16:24

There are good ways and bad ways of managing persistence. Bad: WoW and EQ. Good: LOTRO.

For a tip on what not to do, see the way WoW handles quest items and MOBs in the persistent world. One person can pick them up or kill them, and it removes that MOB/item for everyone until there's a respawn. A really prime example is a Wastewander elite in Desolation. He wanders HUGE open area, and he doesn't respawn that often, so finding him to kill him is a terribly frustrating process.

LOTRO, on the other hand, does a good job of respawning quest MOBs quickly and not having them wander all over the place. Another nice thing is that quest items never disappear from the world no matter what. You can't interact with them if you don't have the appropriate quest (they just appear as part of the landscape), for one thing. For another, when you take the item, YOU can't reuse it, but everyone else who has the quest still can.

Quote:

legitimate reason for mounts...

There is no legitimate reason for mounts, ever. The only reason MMOs don't have map travel is because the time you waste walking increases the probability that you'll pay them for another month. Even with mounts traveling around the map is an annoyance.

I hate having to leave a town and ride my mount for 3 or 4 minutes, complete the quest, then ride back for 3 or 4 minutes. It's boring and it's a waste of time. And it's just that much more frustrating when it takes even longer because you get knocked off the mount by an enemy you couldn't ride around.

No mounts! Map travel or bust!

lyra_song · Jan 16, 2008, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

There is no legitimate reason for mounts, ever. The only reason MMOs don't have map travel is because the time you waste walking increases the probability that you'll pay them for another month. Even with mounts traveling around the map is an annoyance.

I hate having to leave a town and ride my mount for 3 or 4 minutes, complete the quest, then ride back for 3 or 4 minutes. It's boring and it's a waste of time. And it's just that much more frustrating when it takes even longer because you get knocked off the mount by an enemy you couldn't ride around.

No mounts! Map travel or bust!

Town to town travel, i'd definitely want map travel.

But quests far into the wilderness without mounts is just @_@

>.> I prefer fighting mounts anyway...

Ctb · Jan 16, 2008, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

But quests far into the wilderness without mounts is just @_@

Depends. I wouldn't mind a system where you can map travel between towns, but to get to outposts quickly you have to pay a modest fee for a ride. That way, the option is there for you to skip having to walk all the way out there, but if you don't mind, or you want to fight for the experience/money, you can. As long as outposts are intelligently placed, you could get to and from critical areas of the persistent world quickly without paying through the nose or having to wait until level ??? and XXX amount of gold for a mount.

Bazompora · Jan 16, 2008, 04:49 PM // 16:49

The instanced world has <imo> always been one of the major drawbacks of GW1; I was always playing either a singleplayer or very limited multiplayer party. With persistancy and other of it's implied feats, GW2 sounds like it could be everything I am looking for in an online multiplayer game.

Though "Map Travel" has been confirmed for the remake, I really do hope it would exclude a number of non-storyline outposts (for the sake of having some fully-equipped backwater towns outside of the instant-public-transport network) and especially any settlement in the World PvP world (it would be kinda dull if troops would just teleport to battlefield and back to base again).

Eli Rela · Jan 16, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

It would be double edge sword. It is fun, BUT, how would you like to wait for hours on boss spawn and someone just steal your green? So I am against non-instancing, unless ANet comes with a way to stop items stealing and endless camping.

Taurucis · Jan 16, 2008, 05:12 PM // 17:12

I think it'll be a good idea. GW feels a little too "lonely" and there have been many times (when I'm hopelessly lost, with a party at 40% DP, and still half of the map to go) when I wish that another party could come by and clear up the road. I also tend to have a lot of issues with either being ready for a mission/quest too early, or too late... so it would be nice if the rest of my guild could swing by, or I tag along after them.

About queuing up for quests and spawn campers - Guild Wars already did a good job with the end-boss chests - they are instanced per player. While you might have to wait for the other guy to open the chest first, the chest does not disappear. There's also more examples but I can't remember them off the top of my head...

Camping quest monsters? I think Anet could take a hint from Runescape. There's a particularly memorable quest (because I see a lot of low levels get demolished by surrounding mobs as they attempt it) in which you have to kill a lesser demon. I used to hang out there a lot, and I could easily kill that quest demon in 2 or 3 hits... What Jagex did, was that you had to have the quest active or else you couldn't attack the demon. Perhaps Anet could incorporate the same thing - If you don't have a "Kill The Purple Flowers" quest, you couldn't kill the Purple Flowers who are wandering around - and to be fair they can't attack you either, unless you have the quest.

EPO Bot · Jan 16, 2008, 05:18 PM // 17:18

If you want to avoid spawncamping, you should put all the desirable loot in the dungeons. But that doesn't mean a dragon shouldnt show up once in a wile. When it comes should be absolutely random. A place could remain empty for days and then suddenly a huge dragon shows up to lay waste on everyone in the area. When this happens, it's time to mobilize all your guildies before a competing one kills the dragon first.!

Avai · Jan 16, 2008, 05:25 PM // 17:25

There WILL still be map travel in GW2, it's on the official wiki.

I agree that it would be cool to have events where an army of smites will spawn and we'll all get to jump in, but so many times when I played WoW I would be waiting for my boss to come every 3rd hour and some invisible guy would poof out of nowhere and steal my drop.

I think this will make it easier for guildies to meet up with the group if they sign on a bit late when we all go on a quest or something, and I think it would be cool if you could ride a horse or tiger or something to catch up with your guild if you are a bit behind (after all, you can map to an outpost, but the group will have already left that outpost and you'll need to catch up quickly!).

However, I also like having my 55 monk wipe an entire area clean. I know we'll be able to solo in GW2, but if I solo a persistent area what will happen if someone else comes along and pwns a guy at the end I that wanted to get? I would hope drops would still be assigned for 5 minutes, but I still enjoy being able to play solo when I've had a tiring day at work and want some peace and quiet. Maybe the instanced areas will be exciting enough for me to solo.

And what about guild halls? What do you think they will be like in a persistent world? Do you think they would be the same as they are today?

Dylananimus · Jan 16, 2008, 05:37 PM // 17:37

This is a tricky one for me. One the one hand I like the idea of running past people who are doing their own thing, sometimes stopping to lend a hand or throw a heal or buff their way. It's kinda nice, and I liked that in WoW.

On the other hand...OMG, it's just too frustrating to clear an area of little baddies to get to the big baddie, just for somebody else to run past you now the way is clear, to kill the boss you'd worked 15 mins getting close to. I would hate, hate, hate that to happen in GW2. I don't see how they would be able to stop that kind of thing happening in a persistant world.

I seriously hope they give us both options, and not just instanced parts for missions and dungeons, but instanced parts for other types of play like soloing and questing. With a few big, explorable areas of persistant play so we can mix it up when we feel like it.

It's a lot to ask of Anet, but I'm hoping it's not just going to be a copy of WoW or LotR. I want it to be GW and stay GW, with just a little bit extra in the way of gameplay in a few persistant areas.

Oh, and map travel HAS to stay. Nothing more boring than spending half your time getting to places. Some people don't have that much time to spend on a game...hell, some people out there have lives and just wanna hop on to do 30 mins questing, not spend that 30 mins riding on a pony.

Ravious · Jan 16, 2008, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Hopefully they will take a page from Lotro and WAR and make loot from crafting or "quests" more valuable than the 0.001% drop from some elite boss.

Rather than WoW's in sistence on the opposite..

Ctb · Jan 16, 2008, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Hopefully they will take a page from Lotro and WAR and make loot from crafting or "quests" more valuable than the 0.001% drop from some elite boss.

Remember: the original design philosophy behind Guild Wars was that the PvE and PvP environments were tied directly together so that PvP basically was the endgame.

It was a horrible plan and failed spectacularly, which is why almost nothing in Guild Wars is worth anything (everybody has to have the same armor and the same access to max weaponry to keep the balance) and why skill updates are always such a huge hassle (PvP and PvE require completely different tactics, but you can't change the behavior of a skill in one style but not the other). Hopefully they learned from that mistake and unlink PvP and PvE so that PvE players can have a more robust set of armor, weapons, upgrades, stats, etc. while PvP can be focused more on providing a level playing field for all characters from a technical standpoint.

I'm really hoping Guild Wars 2 finally combines the two things I really want in an MMO: the rich set of gear and stats from the "traditional" MMOs like EQ and WoW and the tactically-minded skill system of Guild Wars. I'm tired of having to choose between either the skill-based play of GW or the gear-based play of LOTRO. I want gear to be useful, but not the only thing that matters, and I want my skill selection to require some tactics and thought, but still benefit from my gear selection. And I want it all in one game.

Lonesamurai · Jan 16, 2008, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

I really love the idea, for the simple reason that guild members who log on late would be able to join up with us where ever we were rather than us all haveing to exit and meet at a city.

The one real drawback I forsee is the travel time would increase dramatically.

Actually no, its already been stated that map travel will still be the most common form of transport

Molock · Jan 16, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

I think it sucks... completely instanced world ftw!